Fantasies

[daria]

i have been lurking for a while now.  i discovered this site through random surfing and have found it to be really helpful.  i realize that there are a couple of threads addressing this topic, but none of them answer my questions, so i'm going to ask.

i understand that what we think we manifest in some form or another, so i understand that sexual purity begins in the mind and ends up with body.  but doesn't fantasizing also help you NOT to act?  i find for myself that dreaming about sex is what keeps me from having it, because i know (from experience) that my fantasies are waaaay better than reality.  thus i can work out my sexual tension and not have actually indulged.

i feel A LOT of guilt over this because of the whole idea that our thoughts should be pure as well as our bodies, but limiting my fantasy life just makes me want sex more rather than less.  is this simply my rationalization to do what i want to do?

a little background about me.  while i have been sexually active most of my adult (not teenage) life, i have had long periods of no sex.  mostly because what i was looking for i wasn't getting.  it took a long time (and a sermon by a friend) for me to see that in order to get a new result, i had to do a new thing.  thus, i started looking beyond my lust (i thought) and tried to see the person.  after getting my heart crushed, i realized that you can't see a person if you are looking through the eyes of lust.  you have to remove sex from the picture in order to see the person.  i'm still working seeing with non-lustful eyes:)  now i am involved in a Bible study at my church and i realize that sex the way God intended it is what i have been looking for all along so i am committed to no sex until i get married.  but i have to do something with all these feelings, so back to the original question:  are all sexual fantasies wrong by virtue of being sexual fantasies or are there situations where it is okay because the thoughts don't become actions?

[bishopbiscuits]

Howdy

...........The one thing that I have become more thoughtful about is the effect over time of what I allow into my life. Whether it is what I take into my body i.e. food, drink, medicine or what I take into my mind (food for thought?)
(I know; bad pun )
............One of my concerns is that the indulgence of self in this area may create future dissatisfaction and frustration, possibly without you realizing it.
............Consider this: Could your possible future experience in marriage be diminished by the standards created within your own mind?
...........Would past experience plus fantasy over time make you unnecessarily biased/jaded in how you evaluate and remember possible future events?

Proverbs 30:18 There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:
   19The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

...........Have we let ourselves move so swiftly in constantly chasing after our own sense of what should make us happy, that we have to work that much harder to appreciate or even recognise small and unexpected wonders? Do we know so much so well that we have little capacity to be awed?

...........Though physical desires and responses are natural, without arousal in the mind, they are much more manageable.  By themselves, they have little power.
............What is part of the difference between the interpretation of incidental contact with a stranger, versus a friend or loved one? The promise and potential associated with the person involved in the event. The same action by different people will generate a unique reponse each time, because of how you "see" the person, the action, and what all is represented by the moment within you.
............Sexual fantasy involves emotional desires, hopes, and expectations, combined with your own experiences as the foundation for a creation process. In a "world" limited to what you  bring to it and can imagine, you manufacture and build your own sense of what an "ideal" experience is.  In a "place" where you are in control.
...........Our minds store and keep this information, remembering what we have "welcomed" and called "good" and become sensitive and more responsive to that which reflects our established desires. And tend to reject or ignore other information as unimportant in the pursuit of the priority of pleasure.
........... I don't believe that  we should indulge in sexual fantasy as Christians. It is an easy distraction, that can have lasting effects on our lives. That's because it cannot be as cut -and-dried as we might try to make it. It ultimately involves the whole person.
..........Are there non-sexual issues of intimacy, desire,  and care that have become attached to and amplified the desire to have and keep these fantasies? Even the hidden issues and mysteries of you, He can reveal to you.

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
   30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

.........The awe and wonder of learning to know Christ Jesus, our first husband- and the glory He can reveal in us and through us is a journey worth whole-heartedly exploring. If/when marriage takes place, then it will provide a different glory in our journey.

[daria]

okay, i get the point that by creating a fantasy life i may be blinding myself to a real life.  but (and this is more about understanding me than questioning you) what's wrong with having an ideal?  the way you address it in your post is like it's bad to have standards.  is that because the only standard should come from God and when we fantasize we limit His ability to bring us His best?

what do you mean by non-sexual issues that make me want to keep these fantasies?  i think it's obvious that fantasies of any type (sexual, ones about winning the lottery, about losing weight, etc) are about issues other than the one being fantasized about.  when you fantasize you allow yourself to go places in your head that you might not otherwise because "it's not real".  to me every fantasy is about other issues, thus i don't really understand what you mean.

[bishopbiscuits]

........I am not saying that there is no room for exploration of your own desires. It can be a tool of understanding and knowing yourself better. I am saying that the act of sex should not be involved.
.........I meant to explore the question and share my own thoughts on the topic in general. It was not my intention to be unnecessarily repetitive.
..........I just believe that sexual fantasy for a single Christian is out of place.  There are other areas of our lives where we can put our attention.

[Forum Administrator]

but doesn't fantasizing also help you NOT to act?  i find for myself that dreaming about sex is what keeps me from having it, because i know (from experience) that my fantasies are waaaay better than reality.  thus i can work out my sexual tension and not have actually indulged.

i feel A LOT of guilt over this because of the whole idea that our thoughts should be pure as well as our bodies, but limiting my fantasy life just makes me want sex more rather than less.  is this simply my rationalization to do what i want to do?

Sexual fantasizing does not help you not to act; it is an act. You are having sex, but you're having it with yourself. Sexual fantasy is masturbation of the mind. It is not possible to engage in sexual fantasy without bringing imagery to mind to stimulate the fantasy.

Sex outside of marriage (i.e. with someone who is not your husband or your wife) is a no-no. If you're unmarried and having sex with someone that's fornication/sexual immorality. If you are married and having sex with someone who is not your husband/wife, that's fornication. If you're unmarried and having sex with yourself (i.e. masturbation/sexual fantasy) that's fornication. Why? Because masturbation is having sex with someone who is not your husband or your wife. (I know you didn't raise the issue of masturbation, but often sexual fantasizing and physical masturbation go hand in hand.)

What you're doing by indulging in sexual fantasy is stoking the fire. When you're burning with sexual desire you won't help yourself by adding "hot coals" to your mind. You will just keep stirring up those desires and eventually they will be acted upon.

Sexual desire is a gift from God, so there's no need to ask God to take the desire away from you. However, as with all gifts from God, your desire should be exercised appropriately (i.e. in marriage); you should use it (appropriately) -- it should not be using you. Bishop also raises a valid point: you will set yourself up for frustration and dissatisfaction if you continue to use your fantasies as your "standard." A fantasy by definition is not real: it is imagined. You cannot base a realistic standard on something that is not real.

So what do you do with your desires? First, thank God for them. As I said before, sexual desire is a gift. Secondly, when the fire of desire threatens to overwhelm your thoughts (and ultimately your body), forget about the cold shower. It won't work. A cold shower puts the water on the outside. That's not where the problem is. The fire is on the inside so put the water where the fire is. The water is the word of God. You must re-program your mind with the Word of God. If you want to indulge yourself, indulge yourself in the Word of God.

When there's a fire, you don't just flick a drop of water on it, or sprinkle it with a little bit of water, you have to pour the water on and keep pouring until that fire is out. The same is true with sexual fire. You can't just get a drop of the word; you must saturate yourself with the Word of God. You've done well by getting involved with a Bible study. Make sure that when the Bible study is over, reading the scriptures is still a part of your daily routine. Your body and your spirit belong to God (1 Corinthians 6:19, 20); it is up to you to honor Him with both.

[David Dupree]

Hi Daria,

I echo the things said above by bishopbiscuits and the Forum Administrator.  I would like to add just a few things. 

First in Galations 5, (NIV) it says:
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Proverbs 23:7 As he/she thinks in his/her heart, so is he/she.

I Corinthians 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 13:13Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Daria, a mental fantasy is still designed to fulfill a lust of the flesh.  As you can tell, the scriptures above are against such.  Do not let the subtle soft porn imagery presented in tv, movies etc deceive you into compromise.  You can still stand firm.  But you have to let the enemy know that he cannot have your mind as a stronghold.  Win the battlefield of your mind. 

dd

[daria]

since i shared the bad (as it were), i'm now going to share the good. 

i have embarked on a daily bible reading program.  right now i'm at the end of joshua.  it's been interesting, but i wasn't sure how much of a real difference it was making since i was still struggling with the same issues.  but the other day as i was about to drift into fantasies again, i found myself praying instead.  now it isn't like i don't pray but usually it's after when i'm feeling guilty for not being stronger.  but this time it was before and it was without thinking and i know that it's related to my daily bible reading because came to mind were verses from leviticus about purity before god.  so, i guess there's hope for me after all

[bishopbiscuits]

Most excellent!

............You put yourself in a position to recognise and receive from the Holy Spirit. Acting on His leading is a sign of growth.
...........Having the heart and mind in agreement to do the right thing is powerful. I am encouraged by and thankful for your praise report.
........Continue in your pursuit of Christ and His righteousness.

[Gracious]

AMEN brotha' BB---Amen

U go Ms. Daria

[Forum Administrator]

Woo! Hoo! Go daria! 

[bishopbiscuits]

Hello all 

..........In case anyone reading this topic is interested in a related topic, here's a link http://www.deepwaters.info/forum/index.php?topic=60.0

This is from the Jump Right In section. The topic is masturbation.

I believe that you can get something from the topic, or add to the replies if you have something to share. I find that I still gain from the less recent posts, and figured that I would share this for anyone who might need to read it, but might overlook it.