$$$ ... How Much ... How Long - LORD???

[Gracious]

Ok Ya'll,

I'm going to start out with an apology for my abrasive tone ... it's just that I really need some answers & some help from you all about how to temper myself with this situation ... Amen?

Ok ... Here's the stone in my shoe ...


How much???

Been watchin' & listening & praying ALOT these days, but lately I must confess --- my 401k feels more like the "prey", as I "watch"   it dwindle - lower & lower.

Yup, been watchin' soooooooo many of the "most" FAITHFUL of YOUR servants ... LAWD, jus' walk away from their dream homes & their dream cars, as their dream-jobs are outsourced overseas!  And if that's not enough, these very man-made elect (doin' all the wheelin' & back-door dealin') ... appear to be turning the tables on those who through no fault of their own, have been financially disenfranchised; by spewing a "shame on you" rhetoric - blaming the unsuspecting & trusting consumer for not knowing!!!  Not knowing that interest rates on these "bait & switch" loans (aka ARM's / aka Adjustable Rate Mortgages) would escalate from 4 to 5%, to 10, 12 & 15% in a matter of less than a 36 mo. (3yr.) period!  Watching their house notes jump from an average $900 - $1200 a month, to $2500 - $4500 a month!!!  And when these unsuspecting American citizens, go BACK to their financial lender with the HOPE of transitioning into a FIXED RATE MORTGAGE ... HUH ... they were & are STILL turned away & told NO!

Then ... if that's not enough ... these SAME folk (Mr., Mrs. Ms. Forced into foreclosure & repossession American taxpayers) are dictated to along w/ you & me - saints, by these political "pimps" (yup I said it!!!) &
Forced to come up with over $700 BILLION ... which is like pouring a bottle of battery acid on our unhealed wounds!!!

How long LORD!!!

Been waitin' for things to lighten up JESUS!  Been waitin & prayin' & even fastin'.   Yes!  I know that you will deliver yet I'm compelled to ask You LORD ... "What is the lesson to be learned here?"

Some, cop a plea by sayin' stuff like ... "Live inside of your means" .  But ... only got one tiny question 'bout dat' ...  "What is living within our means?"  'Cause You Lord have shown us throughout Holy Scripture, that Your People ("us") run into problems because we operate BENEATH our privilege. 

Huh, maybe You could lay it on someone's heart  ... here ... to please explain these two terms:
1.   "Live inside of your means" ... AND
2.   "Operating BENEATH our privilege"

HELP!!! Somebody

[sagesong]

There are always lean times.    Historically, even in the Bible there are always periods of feast followed by periods of famine followed by periods of feast.  God provides for his own during both periods.

I truly believe that a lot of people, faithful included step out on their own and not in faith, but in greed.  Sorry, it's what I believe.   Greed, not just from the banking industry fat cats or the wall street tycoons, but greed of everyday americans.   Sorry, it's what I believe.

I beleive that not everything that looks like a blessing is in fact from God and therefore not a blessing at all.  If God is blessing you with an increasing, he will all make provision for that increase.   Look at the story of Abram, Sarai, and Lot.   

At one point, Abram is "blessed" by pharoah with an increase of material wealth.  Later in scripture we learn that it is this increase that in the catalyst for the arguments that led to the separation of Abram and Lot.  Again, I believe, if the increase had been from God, God would have made provision for that increase.   His word says he blesses and add no sorrow with it.

[David Dupree]

Hi Gracious
Thank you for your vent and righteous indignation. :-)  Thank you Sage for providing great insight. 

Gracious,
You raise two great questions that many in the body need to ask more often. Sagesong is right from what I have observed.  Oftentimes, it isn't that the body is trying to live in increase, but live in greed.  God calls us to abundance, but He also calls us to use wisdom and do things in moderation.  That is why the first saints laid their wealth and goods at the apostles feet for them to use and divide for the betterment of the Kingdom. 

We are living in a day and time when we are swamped with advertising to get the latest and biggest and/or bestest of everything...and we are not told by the advertising that all that is relative.  Just because my wall will fit a 60 inch screen TV does not mean that I have to put one there.  Just because the newest Ipod will do more does not mean that I have to have that one.  Does that mean I am living beneath my privilege? No.  It just means that I understand that there are Kingdom principles at work and I have to look beyond my four walls and come out of the "me,my,mine" syndrome.  It means I understand what it means to deny oneself and take up the cross.  It means I know if I don't get the big tv, I will have more to sow into the Kingdom.  AND I will still have a TV.  I may not have the Benz, but I will have a good car that doesn't cost as much to repair and I will not be in debt as long to pay it off. :-)  More to sow into the Kingdom! 

Today's time really accentuates the import of II Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."  We quote that one enough..but we forget that the promise is to the people, not to each person. 

Here we are in the midst of what can be the greatest revival of all times and the world wants us to be more concerned about 401k values than the Kingdom.  Here is where the body of Christ is suppose to exercise faith and quote the text.  "But my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus." Phil 4:19  This is the opportunity to know what it means to consider the lilies of the field and behold the fowls of the air. Matt. 6:26 "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"  Right above that in that same chapter we see where Jesus had just finished instructing the disciples on how to pray.  Then he tells them not to lay up treasures on earth that will corrupt or be stolen, but to lay up treasure in heaven cause where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 

The Psalmist said it like this:  Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God. Psalm 20:7  The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.  Proverbs 18:10. 

Are you in the safety of God?  Then pray, seek His face and don't worry about mammon.  God had a widow woman sustain Elijah.  He had Joseph stowed away in jail to preserve Israel.  He had a great fish to preserve Jonah.  He even preserved Israel while in the captivity of Babylon.  He preserved the 3 Hebrew boys in the fiery furnace.  He preserved Paul and everyone aboard when the ship wrecked.  He preserved John on the Isle of Patmos.  He preserved Israel in the desert 40 years.  He preserved Jesus when all first borns were being slaughtered.  Do you trust God enough to preserve YOU? 

Hmmm have I gotten away from your questions?  Not really.  I think that the background above provides a good framework to know what it means to live inside your means.  God gives us the wisdom-if we want it- on how to "manage"  what we have remaining after we give back to Him tithes and offerings from what He has given us.  We pray it at offering. "All things come of they o Lord and of thine own have we given thee, Amen. (emphasis added I Chronicles 29:14)  We also say "We give thee but thine own, what e'er the gift may be.  All that we have is thine alone a trust o Lord from thee. Amen"  We pray those..but it is mostly out of habit and not out of belief.  So often we believe we are giving God of our substance.  But we are giving Him of His substance. (So why don't you ask Him what is He gonna do about the devaluing of His 401k. hahaha) Do we pray after that, Lord how do You want the remaining funds to be distributed? No.  "If" we pray, we ask, how am I gonna divide MY funds to pay MY bills.

We operate beneath our privilege when we don't allow God to control that which is His. (us)  We like to quote that part of Deut. 8:18 that says He has given us the power to get wealth.  But we forget to put it in context of the whole verse. "But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day."  Wealth is for the Lord's purpose..for the Kingdom!  And then we definitely forget the warning that follows in verse 19: "And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish."  So don't follow after the god of Benz or the god of bigmortgage or the god of 401k or the god of 60inch screen tv.  I am not saying don't have them.  Sure, if God says so.  But what have you sown to the work of the Kingdom, besides your tithes and offerings?  Have you ever held back on a bill so that you would have a seed just because you knew revival was next week?  And then saw God give it back before the week was ended.?

The people of the U.S. have gotten comfortable and soft.  Now it is time to return to effectual fervent prayer, because that is what avails much.  China is preparing missionaries to come and evangelize the U.S., not because of the sinner, but because of the Christian who has forgotten what it means to overcome.  America is already being evangelized by Africa.   Prov. 3:5-6 must come alive in us.  We must trust in the Lord with all our heart and lean not to our own understanding, acknowledging Him in all our ways so that He will direct our paths. You walk in ordered steps.  so How long Lord?  Hmmm Just make sure that your "wait" is under control.  Don't get under "wait"  or over "wait" Definitely watch your "wait!"



dd

[Gracious]

Hey Sage,

Thank you for your response.  And I appreciate your wisdom sooooooo much!!!  You know, when I wrote the O/P of this thread ... I was typing sooooooo fast (I was soooo mad that my anger brought me to tears).   And then GOD sent YOU ... just when I needed !!!

Girl, you said one word that kinda' "STUNG" my spirit, and it was ---- GREED !!!    OUCH!!!  That kinda' hurt my ego some.  Why???  'Cause, the 1st thing I thought was ...'ummmmm ... "Is I'm greeeedy?"  And the answer that came to me was YESSSIR!  Showl is!!!  I have allowed myself to be ahhh ... hoodwinked - lead astray ... Plymouth Rock (the ahhh ... American Nightmare - Dream???) has been hovering over-head & has landed smack-dab, right the  @#$!* (hell) in my life!!!  You know, it's one thing to read about it in the news (what affects our neighbor) ... but it's another thing when that news (that affects our neighbor) affects us too!!!  Empathy is a bit easier to swallow if you've been there & you've overcome that storm!  Where I am is ... I've rolled - over my 401K into a ROTH (@ my local bank) ... lost about a "grand" ... due to the unstableness of the securities market!

But you said something else that my husband & I have received as a Ramah Word!  You said:

At one point, Abram is "blessed" by pharoah with an increase of material wealth.  Later in scripture we learn that it is this increase that in the catalyst for the arguments that led to the separation of Abram and Lot.  Again, I believe, if the increase had been from God, God would have made provision for that increase. His word says he blesses and add no sorrow with it.

Amen & Amen?  An increase from GOD shall have divine provision ... Why???     'Cause:

His word says he blesses and add no sorrow with it."

Whew!!!  A little calmer now ... How'd I do?  And Susta' Sage ... I love you!  


Gracious
 

[Gracious]

Docta' "D" ... 

You've given me & mine a whole lot to chew-on ... Amen? And trust ... we are savoring every word!  We thank you sooooooooo much for your soulfull care!!!  And will let cha' know how your wisdom droplets from heaven have settled within.

Sooooo very grateful!!!


Gracious