Can Women Change Men????

[Breathedonme]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this topic.

I am a little disturbed about a teaching I've been hearing.  An awesome male preacher is teaching (as well as others) that when a woman has a man who isn't "right," that she has the power to change him.  "Women can change men." He provides examples from the Bible, particularly the fact that Adam was made in the image and likeness of God and yet, Eve was able to change Him (of course Samson was an example).

Although I believe (and the Bible bares me out) that women have had major influences throughout the ages on men (Samson, David, etc.), I am of the belief that a man (human being) can change (for the better or even for worse) only if he has a heart to change.

"Hold on to your man, because the woman has the power to change him."  Is that all men???  Does this mean that the woman is at fault if her husband doesn't change from his wicked ways? 

I have heard from the pulpit (from men and women) that if the woman knew how to keep her man, another woman wouldn't have been able to steal him.  Now for hurting women who have experienced this -- hearing this from the place that is supposed to bring healing is horrible.  What if the man (or even woman).  For some women, it wasn't that she didn't do her best, etc., it WAS SOMETHING WITHIN HIM!

If this is the case, as powerful as God is, why can't more people be influenced to receive Him?  Does a human have more power than God? 

Your thoughts please?

[Forum Administrator]

Hi Breathedonme. Can women change men? No. We do not have the power to change anyone else, only to influence. The scripture that comes to mind as I read your post is 1 Pet. 3:1-3 where it speaks of the believing wife who because of her godly lifestyle is able to win her husband without even saying a word to him (i.e. preaching at him). This refers to winning/leading him to Christ. It is Christ Who then through the power of His word and His Spirit is able to actually change the man.

As far as a woman knowing "how to keep her man" to prevent another woman from stealing him, each person in a relationship is responsible to maintain faithfulness in the relationship. In other words, one's own unfaithfulness can never be blamed on the other person. It's a personal decision. Paul mentioned that husband and wife should come together so that satan wouldn't tempt either one. However, Paul does not suggest that you are to yield to temptation just because you and your spouse have not come together. The responsibility for not yielding to the temptation to be unfaithful lies solely on the individual no matter how the spouse is or is not acting, no matter how tempting the temptress/tempter may be. To suggest otherwise, is unbiblical and at best nonsense.

[Gracious]

Amen!!! & Amen!!! FA

If I may ... (and this may have little or nothing to do with your House ... Amen?) ... while reading your post, this thought came upon me ...

We are now in the "CONVENTION" season ... meaning many church leaders go off to these "conventions" - come back to their congregations filled / falsely-empowered with this kind of nonsense & proceed to "feed" it to their congregations!

Now, I'm not condeming the "convention" ritual as a whole, because many many of them are awesome!!!  Yet, many of them are shadow w/ little to no substance & lerking in the shadow is the "enemy" whisphering false doctrine to many a church leader, leaving them somewhat destracted from true "Biblical Exegesis".

I've seen & heard of this time again

Gracious

[Breathedonme]

Thank you for your responses.

I know I will be challenged on this because clearly, the Pastor who said this saw that I wasn't in agreement.  I wouldn't take up the challenge because it would be a no-win-no-win situation. 

I speak to so many hurting women and a few men -- for the most part, as many of you know, they are left feeling that they are to blame for a break up due to infidelity, be it with a new lover as in a human being, drugs, etc.

To use the Word to support this position is no different than what most have done throughout time.  However, to use Adam and Eve as the proof that she convinced him to sin against God, that is a matter of an incident, not a lifestyle.

When a man/woman decides to be or is cruel, unfaithful or whatever to a loved one, be it a spouse, child, sibling, parent, etc., it is a heart/spirit issue.  God is the one who ultimately changes these conditions.  He uses people to help bring forth the Word -- some sow seed, some water, but God gets the increase.

The preacher who made this pronouncement was referring to his personal experience in that he was a "hellian" (sp), and his wife is one of the most gentile, godly women I know.  She is typical of the scripture in I Peter stated by the Forum Administrator.  So, her influence helped to change him, but it was his heart bent towards Jesus Christ that made the change.

Gracious, you sho hit the nail on the head.

As a divorcee, I get so tired of hearing this male-slanted version (although often declared by women) concerning relationships and the best way they can work. 

Nonetheless, I continue to welcome any and all biblical scriptures you can provide in addition to what I have -- I know I will be challenged.  I don't plan to debate with the man of God, but I want to be assured in the Word for myself.

I look at Abigail and when she confronted her husband, I believe Nabal.  He wasn't influenced.  I think of Hosea who couldn't influence his wife to stop sleeping around or to remain faithful.  Again, my position is that God is more powerful than what a woman has (speaking of her feminine anatomy and "power') yet not all are influenced by Him.  Who are we?

Anything further?

[Gracious]

"...Nonetheless, I continue to welcome any and all biblical scriptures you can provide in addition to what I have -- I know I will be challenged.  I don't plan to debate with the man of God, but I want to be assured in the Word for myself.

I look at Abigail and when she confronted her husband, I believe Naaman.  He wasn't influenced.  I think of Hosea who couldn't influence his wife to stop sleeping around or to remain faithful.  Again, my position is that God is more powerful than what a woman has (speaking of her feminine anatomy and "power') yet not all are influenced by Him.  Who are we?

Anything further?"

Hello Breathe,

How are you doing Sweetie?  I'm led to respond to you this way ...

Precious Sista' ... In every Christian woman's heart THIS question will surely arise ... "Why LORD do "men" treat us as lesser than they... And why Lord ... do "they" twist your WORD to do it?"

Truth:

In ancient Israel, a Women's status and freedoms were severely limited by Jewish law and custom in ancient Israel. Generally speaking: Genesis 1:27 to 3:24:
·   they were restricted to roles of little or no authority,
·   they were largely confined to their father's or husband's home,
·   they were considered to be inferior to men, and under the authority of men -- either their father before marriage, or their husband afterwards.

This is where the degredading discrimination of women emanated.  Sadly, to this day, both men & some women, have held onto these sub-human maniacal beliefs!   

Truth:

(Now, you'd asked for scriptural references ... allow me to accommodate you ... Amen?)

Jesus' radical treatment of women:
Christ overthrew many centuries of Jewish law and custom. He consistently treated women and men as equals. He violated numerous Old Testament regulations, which specified gender inequality. He refused to follow the behavioral rules established by the three main Jewish religious groups of the day: the Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees. "The actions of Jesus of Nazareth towards women were therefore revolutionary."  Some examples are:

• He ignored ritual impurity laws: Mark 5:25-34 describes Jesus' cure of a woman who suffered from menstrual bleeding for 12 years. In Judean society of the day, it was a major transgression for a man to talk to a woman other than his wife or children.

 

• He talked to foreign women: John 4:7 to 5:30 describes Jesus' conversation with a woman of Samaria. She was doubly ritually unclean since she was both a foreigner and a woman. Men were not allowed to talk to women, except within their own families. Jesus also helped a Canaanite woman, another foreigner, in Matthew 15:22-28. Although he described non-Jews as "dogs", he was willing to talk to her, and is recorded as having cured her daughter of demon-possession.

 

He taught women students: Jewish tradition at the time was to not allow women to be taught. Rabbi Eliezer wrote in the 1st century CE: "Rather should the words of the Torah be burned than entrusted to a woman...Whoever teaches his daughter the Torah is like one who teaches her obscenity." 5  Jesus overthrew centuries of tradition. In Luke 10:38-42, he taught Mary, sister of Martha.

 

He used terminology which treated women as equal to men:

 

• Luke 13:16 describes how he cured a woman from an indwelling Satanic spirit. He called her a daughter of Abraham, thus implying that she had equal status with sons of Abraham. "The expression 'son of Abraham' was commonly used to respectfully refer to a Jew, but 'daughter of Abraham', was an unknown parallel phrase...It occurs nowhere else in the Bible." 4 It seems to be a designation created by Jesus.

 

• Luke 7:35 to 8:50 describes how Jesus' forgave a woman's sins. He refers to women and men (i.e. "all" people) as children of wisdom.

 

He accepted women in his inner circle: Luke 8:1-3 describes the inner circle of Jesus' followers: 12 male disciples and an unspecified number female supporters (Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna and "many others.") It would appear that about half of his closest followers were women.

He appeared first to one or more women after his resurrection: Matthew 28:9-10 describes how Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" were the first followers of Jesus to meet him after his resurrection. (However, this account is contradicted by passages in 1 Corinthians, which state that the first person to see Jesus was Cleopas, Peter or all of the disciples.)

Women were present at Jesus' execution: Matthew 27:55-56 and Mark 15:40-41 describe many women who followed Jesus from Galilee and were present at his crucifixion. The men had fled from the scene. (John 19:25-27 contradicts this; the author describes John as being present with the women.)

He told parallel male/female stories: The author of the Gospel of Luke and of Acts shows many parallel episodes: one relating to a woman, the other to a man.

For example:

• Simeon and Hannah in Luke 2:25-38

 

• Widow of Sarepta and Naaman in Luke 4:25-38

 

• Healing of a man possessed by a demon and the healing of the mother of Peter's wife, starting in Luke 4:31

 

• The woman who had lived a sinful life and Simon, starting in Luke 7:36

 

• A man and woman sleeping together in Luke 17:34

 

• Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11

 

• Dionysius and Damaris in Acts 17:34
/li]

 

• Lydia and the jailer's conversion in Acts 16:14-34

"Luke expresses also, that man and woman stand together and side by side before God. They are equal in honor and grace; they are endowed with the same gifts and have the same responsibilities."

He (JESUS) expressed concern for widows: Jesus repeated the importance of supporting widows throughout his ministry. The Gospel of Luke alone contains 6 references to widows: (Luke 2:36, 4:26, 7:11, 18:1, 20:47 and 21:1)

Divorce:
In Jesus' time, a man could divorce his wife, but the wife had no right to divorce her husband. This practice is supported by seven  references in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) in which a husband can unilaterally give his wife a bill of divorce. There were no references to a woman giving her husband such a bill. In Mark 10:11-12, Jesus overthrows this tradition and states that neither spouse can divorce the other; he treats the wife and husband equally!

No matter what view one takes in the issue of divorce it (I believe) is important to remember the words of the Bible from Malachi 2:16a: "I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel." According to the Bible, God's plan is that marriage be a lifetime commitment. "So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate" (Matthew 19:6). God realizes, though, that since a marriage involves two sinful human beings, divorce is going to occur. In the Old Testament, He laid down some laws in order to protect the rights of divorcees, especially women (Deuteronomy 24:1-4). Jesus pointed out that these laws were given because of the hardness of people's hearts, not because they were God's desire (Matthew 19:.

The controversy over whether divorce and remarriage is allowed according to the Bible revolves primarily around Jesus' words in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9. The phrase "except for marital unfaithfulness" is the only thing in Scripture that possibly gives God's permission for divorce and remarriage. Many interpreters understand this "exception clause" as referring to "marital unfaithfulness" during the "betrothal" period.

Jesus also has remarriage in mind in this passage. The phrase "and marries another" (Matthew 19:9) indicates that divorce and remarriage are allowed in an instance of the exception clause, whatever it is interpreted to be. It is important to note that only the innocent party is allowed to remarry. Although it is not stated in the text, the allowance for remarriage after a divorce is God's mercy for the one who was sinned against, not for the one who committed the sexual immorality. There may be instances where the "guilty party" is allowed to remarry - but no such concept is taught in that text.   Some understand 1 Corinthians 7:15 as another "exception," allowing remarriage if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer.  However, the context does not mention remarriage, but only says a believer is not bound to continue a marriage if an unbelieving spouse wants to leave. Others claim that abuse (spousal or child) are valid reasons for divorce even though they are not listed as such in the Bible. While this may very well be the case, "presumptions" upon the Word of God ... are a slippery slope ... Amen?

Passages where Jesus does not call for equality of the sexes...

There are two passages where Jesus deviates from his usual practice of treating women equally: (another area were the "enemy" tries to entrap - keep bound woman of GOD)

• His disciples: There are three conflicting lists of the names of the 12 disciples that Jesus selected. In all cases, the disciples were male. He later selected a total of 70 disciples; the gender makeup of the latter group was not recorded.

 

• Levirate Marriage: In Mark 12:18-27 Jesus answered a question posed by some Sadducees. They described a woman who was widowed and required to marry her brother-in-law. This was called a "Levirate" marriage. Their first-born son will be considered to be the son of the deceased husband. In this case, they imagined that seven brothers-in-law married her in succession without having a son.

 

• Jesus could have used the opportunity to preach on the unfairness of this requirement of Jewish law (from Deuteronomy 25:5-10). After all, the woman was not allowed to refuse to marry any of the brothers, even if she despised some of them. Levirate marriage often involved serial rape. But Jesus is not recorded as having condemned the practice.

Treatment of Mary Magdalene by an Angel:

In Matthew 28:1-7, after Jesus' resurrection, "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary" receive the first apostolic commission of any human - to tell the good news of the  resurrection to the disciples. This is reinforced by Jesus' appearance before the two women. The two Mary's were thus the first apostles.

Lastly, (WHEW!!!)

Concerning truth,

Jesus said this, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32)." Since no doctrine has the power to change lives or to free people from sin, truth is not doctrine. Truth is alive. Truth is full of power. So if you claim to know the truth, you must be talking about Jesus, not doctrine. Truth and doctrine are not the same thing. Doctrine is knowledge, and knowledge, at best, "puffeth up (1 Corinthians 8:1)." Knowledge is the source of pride, which in turn is the source of division. Truth is the sweetness of God's Spirit in the hearts of those who love God.

Hopefully there are a few "pearls" up-in this post, that you can discretely WHIP-ON-'UM (the "devil" within these leading "men"), the next time the "creep" rises to spout out hurtful "garbage" against GOD's "femanine persuasion" ... Amen?

Smooches for now,


Gracious

[Forum Administrator]

One thing to note in that passage (1 Peter 3:1-3) is that it says the husband may be won. In other words, the choice to respond to the influence is still up to the individual. God never violates free will. The final decision is still the individual's. That would explain why an Abigail or a Hosea could be a godly influence and the people they were married to still act the fool. 

[Lotusblossom]

Gracious you said a mental, mouthful, but
stated well, and glad you added the references,
cause its always good for one to read god's
word for themselves.  Just wanted to say
good words of encouragement, and ladies you
or shall I say WE need to know that you are
worthy of being treated with respect, love,
honor, just as god expects this of any man, Amen
sleep well and have a Blessed Labor Day weekend!

Hugs and Ladybugs