What does tithing have to do with relationships?

[Forum Administrator]

5.] how can you die spiritually as a believer? are you saying when a believer sins they die spiritually? please give me a verse?

This is a lively discourse. KJSiv, you have raised some good questions, and Faith215, you have answered well!   While Faith215 is preparing her next response, let me jump in on the above point.

KJSiv, do you remember in Genesis 2:17 when God told Adam that if he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would surely die? When Adam ate of the tree, he died. Physically he died, though not right away, but the process of the decay of the body began and eventually he physically died. Spiritually, however, he died immediately because the fellowship he had with God was broken the moment he disobeyed God. Adam, who used to meet with God in the cool of the day and fellowship with Him, now ran away from God and hid from him (Genesis 3). Sin separates us from God.
 
In Romans 6:23, which is written to believers, it says "the wages of sin is death." James 1:15 was also written to believers and it says, "sin, when it is finished, brings forth death." Again, I refer you (if you haven't looked already) to the entire book of 1 John which deals with the relationship between sin and fellowship with God.

[KJSiv]

faith 215,

 i think we are getting somewhere. i will get to that in a sec. i also have to run so why dont we examine just two points for now and then move to the others.

1.] in regards to following the WHOLE law and not learning it as a formula. if your talking about the law then how we learned it is irrelevant. the law is what it is. again, i need scriptures backing that only some apply today. never is the law referred to as being applicable in parts. we cannot look at society today and "find" the applicable laws. i say this in reference to the clothes being of diff. fabrics. again, if the law is NOT obsolete, then it applies, end of story. actually everything applies today regardless of what we may think. so by you saying you would be back in bondage by having to check all your clothes for diff. fabrics is very true. the same goes for the law in its entirety... including being bound to give a minimum amount, or a tithe. so i pose you another question (imagine that ) which part of the law did we die to?

2.] when i asked you about not tithing and what happens and who this applies to, started us in an interesting direction. when you said it depends on their level of faith, that is opposite the law. again the law is just that...LAW. w/ all its restrictions and ordinances the law is what it is, including the penalties. so each level of faith does not play a role. in a sense you contradicted your next statement by saying ignorance is no excuse. in regards to the law, your right in saying there is no excuse. but once again by saying we are cursed if dont tithe is legalistic. that sounds very much like bondage of law.

i do feel each believer is to give as they see fit.(as God leads). so i partly believe what you said about each level of faith. i think teaching minimums is contradictory to grace. if "Joe" feels led to give 10% then by golly give it.( did i just use "golly" in a sentence? ) i dont think it is for "Joe" to teach this as a mandate for all believers to follow. are you hearing a Romans 14:1-23 theme here?

anyway faith 215, i must run, but if you want to respond to these, feel free. we can get the rest later if you wish.

in Christ

ps. yes, i did just use golly in a sentence.


a diet helps people gain weight slower

[KJSiv]

hey faith 215, i will pick up where i left off.

1.] i assume many have the viewpoint of making the "pastors pockets phat" as you put it. do you think the 10% you give has to go the "church" (building that is. ) you made some interseting points concerning giving (tithing). when you said you give as your heart leads, i actually feel this is what we are called to do. so in essence by teaching 10% as the absolute minimum believers are allowed to give, we are doing just that, putting a minimum on what we are allowed to feel led to give. conversely speaking, you said after all God has done for you, how can you not give at least 10%. well, you, me, and everyone else reading this knows that 10% minimums dont satisfy this desire to give back. we will NEVER "outdo" God. im not sure why we say "give back to God". from what i see in scripture, giving is a means of helping others, not as an ordinance to "show God how much we love Him." so i agree w/ you in saying expecting "stuff" back (as ive heard Creflo Dollar teach) isnt really the idea, helping others is!

2.] concerning the scriptures in Heb 8. im not sure of what you mean by saying,"the laws and the covenat are separate entities." what do you think it means when the law is referred to? the old covenant?

3.] back to following the whole law. i dont know if you answered the question. the moment you speak of w/ the woman caught in adultery is actually before the new covenant... Christ is still alive. so by law, she was to be stoned. They based this on Lev.20:10. basically, i was asking if our grounds for tithing is from the law, OT, the old covenant whichever you call it, then why dont we follow the entire thing, why are only some of its practices still practiced? under the same law, tatoos,shaving beards, etc. are all considered sinful. also the law told us, "an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth."  so again, i ask, how can we biblically justify tithing as a mandate for all?

well, lets see where this takes us. i must run. hear from you later.

in Christ


it takes more courage to repent than it does to keep on sinning.

[skydejki]

I feel what ever the decision whether to tithe or not is to be done in unity: the couple must 1st look @ thier financial situation and prayerfully seek God's guidance
 dealing with the subject of tithes. nothing causes more strife, labelling and judging amongst believers. from my own personal study and prayer to God. I believe that mandatory tithing is OT along with the curses and consequences in non conformance, as for  the NT believer is first and foremost called to love and to contribute to the needy saints in thier fellowships. the amount is left to the individual. many have testimonies of how tithing brought them thru. many non tithers have the same victories.  I believe that the blessings and favor of the Lord is a gift and not something that can be bought.  tithing in NT is neither commanded nor commended. ....and was only referred to those still under law.

[KJSiv]

wow!, skydejki that was a pretty awesome response. you pretty much spoke my heart on the issue. .

neither commands nor commends huh, again, wow that was awesome! . i believe money matters should/need to  be discussed. if folks want to tithe, they should be sure God is leading them to do so. actually, whatever you give should be God lead!! both partners should be secure in what they are doing, end of story.

i look forward to hearing more of your insight.

in Christ


many convictions are actually hand-me-downs.