Obama and the body of Christ

[da2bjeez]

The Lord shall be Glorified!!!


With this saying I understand that with the same judgement I give, I will also receive!!!Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again Matthew 7: 1-2.


Obama is not a christian!!
The bible says, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. What fruit- good christian fruit have you seen Obama bring forth? Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matt 7:15-17. Do not be deceived God is not mocked what a man sows he shall reap.


Look as christians we must speak the truth, live the truth, breath, and eat the truth. Test the spirits each and every one of them. In saying that we must also test ourselves to see if Jesus Christ is truely LORD over our lives and not just Saviour.
Lordship-meaning we obey his commend he has total control over us, that includes the choices we make. Gods commends are TRUTH!!!

[sagesong]

No offense, but be careful when you place yourself in the judgement seat. 

Is McCain a Christian?  He's had multiple marriages and affairs.  Does that mean he isn't a Christian.  Is he a ravening wolf?

Sarah Palin also a confessed Christian has been caught in more than one lie.  She is now being investigated for misuse of public funds, which could be considered a type of stealing.  Is she a Christian in your book?

What evil has Obama done?  You don't agree with his views on same sex marriage.  Okay.  What if God hasn't finished with him yet.  What if He is working on him, refining him, giving him increased understanding as we speak? 

I have lied, stolen, had an abortion, fornicated, and worshipped idols before Jehovah.  This is all after confessing Christ.  Am I a Christian as you see it? 

Are you saying because someone lacks wisdom or knowledge in some areas that they are not a Christian?   Where is the room for God to grow, refine, and develop a person into his likeness? 

This isn't about politics for me.  Vote as you like.  I've clearly topic jumped.  I'm troubled by your proclamations as to who is or isn't a Christian.

[da2bjeez]

 


There is no reason to be  "troubled by your proclamations as to who is or isn't a Christian". I'm not saying we don't have problems, don't get me wrong.  And yes if more christians would put there self in the judgement seat they would be more repentent, and not have any boby, person, group, preachers, bishop, prophets, etc... coming into there church feeding them JUNK, and saying its the WORD.

All christians should be able to operate with the same power that the apostles did. Unfortunately all do not, thats why we have churches on every corner from city to city, and there is no change- anyways thats a whole diffrent topic. I'm not voting for any president, because both have way ward views, and the bible says a double minded man is unstable. I will vote for other things like protecting one man one woman marriage.


I will not apologize, but will pray that Obama finds the TRUE GOSPEPL, one that is not counterfeit, and makes you feel good, and no change.
I stand for truth, like Peter denied christ three times, before the power of the HOLY GHOST came upon him, and then proclaim the gospel even unto death. We must pray but and the same time correct each other in love, that way more souls will go to heaven!!!!

[gracegirl]

Amen Da2 I received the same scripture verse as well as Jeremiah which should be read in depth by all.  It's troubling to me when I hear not according to Democrat/Republican, or McCain/Obama or even issues, but according to God's desire on the matter.. Doesn't God make it clear his desire on the matters of homosexuality, abortions, socialism, I mean it seems obvious to me, if we're truly praying and acknowledging him. No one is saying McCain is a true saint.  But Jesus said we're not to be conformed to this world yet we've been sthingy fed by so much us this Obama excitement we've swallowed it  whole! While mainstream biased media downplays Obama's contrary background and associations that directly influence his judgment.    Judgement that will affect our religious liberties in the future as Christians. Where's the discernment?   You hit the nail on the head Da2 we have truly trumped our values as Christians in order to make history.

[Gracious]

OK ... After my initial response ... I'd sat silent ... watching & praying about the venom so freely spewed by some concerning Senator Obama. 

In bold red letters ... that he's not a Christian?

Question(s)!

Is not a Christian, someone who RECEIVES JESUS The CHRIST into their hearts as their PERSONAL Lord & Savior?  Is this not an individual's heart concern???  If this is so, is it biblically, and or spiritually correct for us to sit in judgement of another's HEART & MOTIVE concern?  Is this "spiritual re-birth & indwelling," between man & other men (and or women) ... OR ... is this PERSONAL SPIRIYUAL CHOICE ...  between GOD & THAT individual???  As Christians, are we not charged to :  "...be not conformed to this world: but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, that we may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God..."

How do we do this with HATRED in our heart???  Sista's  Gracegirl & da2bjeez ... what have you proven here?   That ... This world teaches us to HATE one another ... to cut & tare one another apart!!! Not to admonish that which we are lead is distateful in the sight of GOD ... IN LOVE!!!

YOU do not LOVE Senator Obama as a "professed" child of GOD, which he confessess freely & openly, simply because he does not view his faith with YOUR through YOUR OWN imperfect lenses?

For me my Sisters, actually it was Sage & DD that hit the nail on it's proverbial head  ... by both inferring that ... whether you agree or diagree with the policies of a "political" candidate, do either of you have the RIGHT to JUDGE another's heat-choice (motive)

NO ... my sisters ... YOU DO NOT!!!

On judgement concerning matters of the heart ...

Matthew 7:2-4
(New International Reader's Version)

2 You will be judged in the same way you judge others. You will be measured in the same way you measure others.

3 "You look at the bit of sawdust in your friend's eye. But you pay no attention to the piece of wood in your own eye. 4 How can you say to your friend, 'Let me take the bit of sawdust out of your eye'? How can you say this while there is a piece of wood in your own eye?

What I have seen from you both (da2bjeez & Gracegirl) is somewhat surprising to me.  Because I've witnessed & been blessed by your mature & loving hearts releasing true wisdom.

Loving you all ,

Gracious

[da2bjeez]

WOO!


I will take a seat after this. True love is correction even if it means hurting a person. You continue to lie, then you will have the spirit of Lies. I understand that this may be a heated topic, all I'm asking for is Obama's fruits, fruits for the KINGDOM. My lord informed me in his word which he puts above his name that you shall know them by there fruits. Are Catholics christians, are Jews christians? We have many people professing christ for years and still they are not changed, we must questions if the gave there emotions to God or there heart? True confessing of CHRIST brings change, if you get saved today and God sends someone to enlighthen you that abortion is sin, God gaves you the power to change that immediately, because his spirit dwells in you. Don't get me wrong it may sometimes take longer, but if your dealing with something and God is telling you need to stop, how long will he strive with you?

We have rap singers, r&b artists receiving Jesus The Christ INTO their heart, and still cussing, have premarital sex, doing drugs, and acting dressing like the world. Is this not an individual's heart concern??? Would you say the are christians? Tell me, I need to know. Please inform me!!!!

Don't be deceived my friends there are many people in sheep clothing, we must ask God to open our eyes. We cannot take from the word of GOD what we want and leave the rest out. Let me ask a question all all religions ONE?


I don't have hatred in my heart, just asking questions thats all Gracious.

[David Dupree]

Hi Da2 and others. 

You raise a good question that is the source of much controversy down through the years and in my opinion, does not have a clear cut answer..or at least an answer that seems to be readily accepted by most persons--especially those in the body of Christ.

I will probably just add to the disparity, but here goes. 

Christian is commonly defined as "Christ-like"  or as "one who follows after the precepts and concepts of Christ. 

For many in the "body" of Christ, Christian has come to mean "one who is born again" or "one who is saved."

Who is right?  Well, the Bible does not define per se' Christian.  However, in Acts 11:26 it says that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.  Where these disciples the 12 of Jesus?  I don't believe so. (cause at that time, the original disciples were then being called apostles.) I believe these disciples were those who had sat and been taught for a year about Jesus by Barnabas and Saul.  (and the way Barnabas and Saul taught, you can be sure they all received the Holy Ghost!)  So those who gave the name Christian to Christians were not the church people, but the people of Antioch to distinguish those who had been in that teaching.   

So does that mean that the church should adopt the world's view of what a Christian is?  No.  The church does not have to conform to the world, but still needs to be transformed. 

Peter uses the term in 1 Peter 4:16 when he says, "if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed..."   Strong's  has the Greek translation of "Christianos" which means "a follower of Christ."

Were the disciples, the original 12, "saved" or "born again" when they began to follow Jesus?  No.  In fact, some of them did not truly understand who Jesus was at the time, even after Peter's revelation.     That leads me to conclude that one can be a follower of Christ and not be saved.  (in fact, I know a few.) 

So back to your questions:  "are Catholics Christians?"  I ask back, do they follow Christ?  "Are Jews Christians?"  I ask back do they follow Christ?

Again, you say we must question if they gave their emotions to God or their heart?  All I  recall the scripture saying is that you were to confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him (Jesus) from the dead, you shall be saved. Rom 10:9. 
But then Matthew says he that endures to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22
Mark says he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. Mark 16:16
Luke says thy faith has saved thee.  Luke 7:50, 18:42
John says Jesus says I am the door, enter in and be saved.  John 10:9
John also recorded Jesus telling Nicodemus in John 3, you must be born again.
Acts 2:21 says whoso calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 16:31 believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Notice, all of those scriptures have to do with being saved.  And we already established that being Christian does not equal being saved.

I will admit that I have heard some rappers and such that spout or espouse all manner of filth, yet at grammy time, I have heard some of them not only thank God, but also give honor to their "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." 


dd

[sagesong]

I'll add, we shall understand it better by and by.  I am only glad that it is God's job to judge my heart and not man's.  I would caution you all not to set the bar so high that you yourself cannot make it in.

[Gracious]

Thank you  da2bjeez,

I believe you when you say: ... "I don't have hatred in my heart, just asking questions thats all Gracious."     YES!!!  I do take you at your word.   Do you extend this same graciousness to others? ... Could you have misjudged through your "interpretations" & in your accusations / assertions???

Consider this ...  You know, I remember (maybe you do as well too) eight years ago, shortly before GW maneuvered his way into the White House via the Federal Supreme Court!  The devil planted distractions concerning "the body of Christ"!  Questioning the institution of marriage?  Abortion? And other "Christian Value Issues" ... do you remember?   Wasn't it THOSE very questions that literally tore this country apart???  And while "faith" denominations were hatefully bickering among themselves ... the "enemy, supporting lies & greed", waltzed his way right into the Commander in Chief position of this land! And the TRUEST "fork-tongued -wolf in sheep's clothing" Richard Chaney via The Carl Rove playbook (who's own daughter is a PROFESSED lesbian) paved the way for a 2 term Bush presidency!!!

News Flash!!! ... 'Ole GW professes to be a CHRISTIAN!!!  Have you or anyone DARED to question his ahhh ... CHRISYAN FAITH?

Question(s):

Eight years ago ... Did "they", the right wing conservatives of this country & others who hold deep seated bigoted mentalities ... DARE to label  Al Gore (or even 4yrs ago ... Senator John Carry) as a " Socialist, a Marcsist, a Communist, a terrorist --- an Anti-American"   Did "they" ask questions like ... "Who is the REAL Al Gore or John Carry???  Did "they" even QUESTION their religious professions of  faith by labeling either of them as a NON-CHRISTIAN???  Yet, Vice President Al Gore, Senator John Carry AND Senator Edward Kennedy's (considered a beloved jewel from both sides of the political aisle) policies & professed beliefs all MIRROR Senator Barack Obama's!

A SUBDUED "TRUTH":

There are HUGE factions of this country, who FEAR Barack Obama, because he represents the culmination / the FRUITION ... of a "dream-deferred"!!!  Not only for People of Color, but for EVERY downtrodden soul that has been battered soooo thoroughly, that they've almost given up - almost let go ... BUT ... for HIS (GOD's) STANDARD!!!

My Sista',  we know that the devil IS shrewd, cunning, a counterfeit, AND REDUNDANT!!!  he  will use (if GIVEN an opportunity) even the Holy Bible AND it's precepts to destroy humanity!!!  How many HATE Org.'s have maimed & killed & enslaved other human beings ... with the Holy Bible in one hand (quotin' scripture) & a whip or a "moose-shootin' " shotgun in the other???

Surely, in your seeing ... you've seen this REDUNDANT "smoke-screen" hovering overhead?  It smells like - looks like the SAME "OLE fowl tricks & games of 8 years prior!

Now you say that you see deception (concerning Obama's Christian Faith), and in my heart ... I see deception too ... alil' differently tho' (concerning the bigoted mentality that would seek to separate Christ-Follwers)!  But rather than pointing our fore-fingers at one another (e.g.  who's an authentic Christian, who holds American values)  & because you say that you do not "hate" Senator Obama ... surely we can join together as ONE BODY in CHRISTIAN LOVE through prayer concerning this man & his family, that GOD keep HIM safe from all hurt harm or danger ... guiding us ALL safely towards HIS TRUTH.

Thanks for listen'in,

Gracious

[Breathedonme]

I've read everyone's response and the only thing I will add is that God is TOTALLY in control!!! 

President-Elect Obama . . . good, bad or indifferent . . . my hope is in the Lord.  I don't believe Father God is in Heaven with the heavenly host saying, "Hey All, we messed up - dem folks done voted Obama in, so what do we do now?  Go to Plan B!!!"  Oh no.  God knew Obama would be elected (is my belief).

TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!!!  Debates on who is Christian and who is not; or who is "saved" and who is not, may be valid and certainly topics of correction or whatever should probably be addressed; however, I will go back to what I feel is the bottom line - GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.

Just my 2 pennies!

[sagesong]

Yes.  God is in control always.   As for conversations about who is or isn't a Christian, I would be careful. 

Philsophical debates about what a Christian looks like yes, but who is or isn't based on what man sees of him or her, I wouldn't touch it.  Our vision is blurry as best.  We only see what we see, God sees all including into a man's heart.

[Breathedonme]

My daughter received the following email sent to a co-worker from a friend!  I think it sums it up:

For months now my email Inbox has been besieged by nearly hysterical warnings about what will happen if Barack Obama becomes President.  I have been encouraged to be worried, afraid, concerned, prepared for disaster, and a whole host of other maladies if this happens.  I do not deny the importance of this election, but it seems to me that we need a dose of perspective.  So here, on the eve of the election, I would like to start my own email concerning this election.  It's a "True/False" test.  I'd like for all of us to take it.  Feel free to email it on to whomever:


True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, Jesus will still be King.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, our responsibilities as Christians will not have changed one iota.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, the greatest agent for social change in America will still be winning the hearts and minds of men and women through the gospel, not legislation.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, my primary citizenship will still be in this order - (1) the Kingdom of God , (2) America , not vice-versa..

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, the tomb will still be empty.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, the cross, not the government, will still be our salvation.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, our children will still be more concerned with whether or not we spend time with them than with who is President.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, my neighbor will still be my neighbor, and loving him/her will still be the second greatest commandment.  (Do you know the first?)

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, the only way to see abortion ultimately overturned will still be winning men and women to a high view of life through the gospel of Christ.


True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, the only way to see gay marriage ultimately defeated will still be winning men and women to a biblical view of marriage through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, my retirement will still not match my treasure in Heaven.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, "Jesus Is Lord" will still be the greatest truth in the Universe.

True/False:  The day after the election, regardless of who wins, we will still know that God is in control.

No matter the outcome, I pray that you will remember who you are and who He is.

[Gracious]

Yeah Girrrl,

So true ... yet, I can't help believing that it is "DIVINELY BECAUSE of", and not "inspite" of ... the way that this presidential election has transpired, that we are a better nation ... for this journey. 

But ummm ... That's jus' me!